Smaug1

My road bike is a Trek Domane AL3. A lower end, aluminum-framed road bike.
Wheels are: Bontrager Paradigm, Paradigm SL or Affinity Disc,
Tires are: Bontrager R1 Hard-Case Lite, wire bead, 60 tpi, 700x32mm

I was poking around researching tire pressure, and this simple calculator says:
Here are my questions:

1. I'm guessing that those Hard-Case Lite tires are not considered supple, but I sure like the fact that I've had zero flats in over 2,000 miles of riding it. How many more flats am I going to get (all else being equal) if I get "supple, high-performance tires"?
2. How much faster will I be? I typically ride 15-17 mph, where 15 is comfortable at around a 150 heart rate and 17 is maximum effort at 175 heart rate.)
3. Someone once told me: "Get rid of those stock wheels and get something decent and it'll make a big difference in your speed." How much, do you think?

Thanks!

mstateglfr 

Yes, quality fast rolling tires will save you power compared to your current tires and that should result in faster speed.
Yes, lighter wheels that are also aero will save you weight and reduce drag compared to your current wheels and that should result in faster speed.
Yes, of the 2, quality fast rolling tires will likely net you a bigger gain overall and also when cost is considered.

I dont think a Conti GP5k tire will, in and of itself, flat more frequently than your tires. It rolls fast and has puncture tech.
Additionally, if you just convert the wheels to tubeless, you really dont have to worry about most common flat scenarios.



As for how much faster you will be?...

RChung

Ironically, the improvement in speed from tires works like climbing a hill: a reduction in Crr (the coefficient of rolling resistance) of .004 (=0.4%) has an effect on speed exactly like reducing the slope of a climb by 0.4%. That's always and everywhere, so if you're riding on a flat road, a reduction in rolling resistance of .004 would be like going downhill on a slope of -0.4%, and an increase in rolling resistance of .004 can turn a very slight downhill into a slight uphill--and it's a pain to pedal like you're going uphill even when you're going down.

OTOH, some people think that unless you're a pro, no one cares about climbing speed, so there's that.

datlas 

There are calculators online that you can plug in rolling resistance and drag coefficients to actually give an answer.

But the truth is your speed increase for the same effort will be only a smidge faster, maybe 0.1-0.2MPH for the tires and maybe a smidge more for deep aero wheels. So pretty modest, maybe 0.5 MPH for both.

This is a ballpark estimate.

shelbyfv

I think it's worth trying a pair of nice tires, just so you'll know. You may not be any faster, you may not appreciate the ride or any of the attributes others value. Once you've tried them you can make your own informed choice. One of the few examples where top tier stuff is attainable by the masses.

tFUnK

I know you asked about speed but the other part of this is how much more enjoyable it will be to ride nicer tires and lighter wheels.

Eric F 

Also, aero wheels look hot.

marko_1111

I've been riding all winter on HardCase Lite R3 tires that came on a Trek I bought last fall with zero flats for 2200+ miles, and I've sure liked the zero flat part as well. I don't ride in the mountains in winter so I figured I'd beat em up on bad roads and see how it went. Didn't care so much about performance off season and they've served their purpose. No, they're not supple and I wouldn't want to ride anything challenging at all on them and I'll lose them going into summer. I had similar tires on a different Trek a few years ago and knew on my first ride down a mountain they had to go straight away. So anyway I have recent experience with similar tires

You're gonna flat more regularly. Period. I usually ride GP5s in winter and don't get many but some

Pretty sure your tires are around twice as heavy as a better performing choice, so you'll immediately lose about a pound from your wheels. It's gonna feel different and better whether or not you're faster, and it'll handle way better when you need it

I replaced my last stock wheels because they weren't stiff enough for me, but I'm going to replace the ones on the new Trek because they're just too heavy and narrow. Unsure about the faster part, but if you go aero they'll definitely look cooler

Russ Roth

With tires there can be a noticeable feel difference, some tires just feel sluggish, usually the more puncture resistant the slower they tend to feel. How much speed difference is something I've never tried to quantify but the overall feeling of a lighter, smoother rolling performance tire is noticeable. With wheels a deeper aero set can get you some extra speed but usually not significant. Two points that often get overlooked is that even if a wheel upgrade means only a .2mph difference, on a longer ride of 60mi by someone who can maintain over 25mph in a group the difference might only come down to around a minute. Good if it means saving the tiny extra energy for the finish line sprint. For a slower rider averaging 15mph the difference can come out to around 4 minutes faster. A good amount of time. The other is that aero is based on an average speed of usually over 20mph but that any ride into the wind is combo of your speed plus wind speed so they can be more advantageous than might be thought by someone who can't maintain 20+ mph. I'd start with tires though and if the speed bug bites, start checking out wheels, don't expect them to magically change your numbers but they will effect your overall results.

LarrySellerz

The most bang for your buck changes to your bike are as follows.

position change: if youre able to get more aerodynamic by changing the cockpit without losing comfort, this is the fastest change for your money.

tires: faster tires will be a bit faster

wheels: faster wheels will be a bit faster, but less bang for your buck than tires.

roadies swear by tires called “gp 5000” and while they are a marketing gimmick and absurdly overpriced, they are still a “cheap” option if you want to buy speed. Start with that and being more aero.

wheels are usually considered more worthwhile to upgrade than changing other components that aren’t mentioned to be more lightweight.

LarrySellerz

While it could just be a cope from people who spent a bunch of $, in groups the faster wheels and tires can also help with accelerations/accordion effect and be the difference between riding with them and getting dropped. Top speed isn’t as key as being able to accelerate, so the difference in energy saved at a certain speed is underestimating the effectiveness. Atleast in theory lol.

shelbyfv

And there it is folks....

mstateglfr 

So faster tires will be faster, gp5k tires are documented to roll faster, but gp5k tires are a marketing gimmick?
I mean, come on now. Surely you can see how absurd your gimmick claim is.


Anyways...
- what tire should the OP buy, if one of the most popular and well reviewed tires is an overpriced gimmick?
- how specifically is the gp5k a gimmick?
- what should a gp5k tire cost in order to not be viewed by you as overpriced? I can buy online a tube type for $55 and a tubeless type for $65.

tomato coupe

So, faster stuff is faster? Brilliant.

Mtracer

According to bicyclingrollingresistance.com, the Bontrager R3 Hard Case Light 25 mm tires are use about 8-10 W more per tire than Continental GP 5000 S TR. Now, these aren't the Bontragers that the OP has, but I think it is likely they are similar in performance.

For me and my setup (tall guy, 6' 2", heavy-ish 195 lbs), and quality bike with good wheels and tires (Trek Domane SLR 7), at around 17 MPH, my speed changes about 0.06 MPH per Watt. So, a 16-20 W difference would be about 1-1.2 MPH.
So, I think it is reasonable to expect you might go about 1+ MPH faster with really good tires. Assuming yours are similar to the Bontrager R3 tires.

A 1 MPH improvement is huge. Once you start getting upper teens and nearing 20 MPH or higher, speed increase are really hard to get.

I have 3,400+ miles on my current set of GP 5000 S TR 28 mm. I run tubeless. I've never gone flat, I've only had a handful of punctures that sprayed any sealant on the frame. The tires are actually holding up better than any other tires I've used. But that's a short list, so doesn't mean much. Point is, in my experience GP 5000 S TR tires are not delicate or prone to wearing early, puncturing, or getting cutup.

I think the tires are a lot more important than the wheels, assuming there's nothing wrong with the wheels (like worn out hubs). While aero is an advantage at any speed, it becomes much more so at truly high speeds. I don't have any numbers for say shallow versus deep section rims at slower speeds, but I don' think it is near what you would get from using the best tires.

I did find this on the interwebs:

QUOTE
‘At 40kmh, the switch from shallow rims to deep sections could be worth around 10W, which could save you 30 seconds over the hour,’ says Rob Kitching, founder of performance-modelling outfit Cycling Power Lab.
END QUOTE
40 kph = ~25 MPH which is faster than most of us are going to ride solo for any length of time. Lower this to 17 MPH, and that 10 W difference drops to about 3 W.

There are of course other differences in wheels, such as bladed spokes, better hubs and to some degree more efficient rims, but I think these effects are lesser still.

Unless your tires are already good tires, better tires are a no-brainer if you're looking for a big improvement. For a given bike, I'm not sure there is any other upgrade that will increase speed as much as replacing lower performance tires with high performance. Well, maybe fitting TT bars.

seypat

It will enable you to generate 1.21 gigawatts, hit 88mph and become Marilyn McCoo.

bblair

New wheels: probably $1000. And you still need tires.
New tires: well, you still need some kind of tires, so maybe an additional $75 over the heavy ones.

No doubt that not only will better tires make the biggest difference, also the best improvement per dollar.

SoSmellyAir

Bontrager Paradigm SL is a 2,080 g wheelset: Bontrager Paradigm SL 6-Bolt Disc 24H 700c Road Wheel - Trek Bikes

That is really heavy. Definitely not SL.

seypat

So the OP should change the paradigm(s)?

Iride01 

You probably won't be that much faster. But you'll be able to go further before you get too tired and have to slow down.

SoSmellyAir

I am merely pointing out that it would not necessarily be that difficult or expensive to make a significant upgrade over the stock wheelset with respect to both weight reduction and aerodynamic improvement aspects.

seypat

People are too serious on these boards. Let me add an s to the paradigm in my post. OP definitely needs to get a new wheelset since his current wheelest is only worth 20/40 cents.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=change+yo...sl_fu4ltihch_e

cyclezen

Dependz...
I just bought a TREK Emonda SL5 - should be a slightly better wheelset, but prolly is the same... My immediate thoughts on the test ride - The wheels have GOT TO GO ! Heavy, lethargic, stiff tires,
typical compromise when a manufacturer wants to save costs - they roll... done... I bought the bike, fully expecting to immediately buy new wheels w/Good tires...
so back to your Qs...
Aero - as speeds increase, aero is very (most) important for any increases - except maybe when climbing at slow speeds... At 15-17 mph you're just entering that velocity where aero is the major factor. And the #1 thing in aero is the Human...
https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/uci-roa...%20improvement.

ok - now to wheels/tires...
Good, light wheels and good tires can make a very discernible difference in your ride experience (and that includes speed).
Aside from air resistance - Aero, there is rolling resistance, and gravity... Rolling resistance can be very discernible, although it might be a 'small' difference, the additive, cummulative effect over the period of a 'ride' can be very measurable. AND rolling resistance also adds to one other very important thing... loss of momentum ...
Loss of momentum is ALWAYS there, even on wonderfully flat and perfect roads... so over that period of loss, for a rider to maintain a certain speed/velocity, they will need to make up for Loss of momentum - which means 'acceleration', constant acceleration ! Now there is always controversy about accelerating a 'heavy wheel' vs 'lighter'. On a perfect road the heavy wheel may hold momentum, but on any surface where momentum loss becomes greater, a 'heavy' wheel requires more power to accelerate. The 'Heavy' is usually mostly in the outer parts of the wheel - Wheel rim & tire/tube, and also dependent on spoke count and weight... So Greater constant need for power than a 'lighter wheelset/tire/tube combo'...
This is amplified by another major factor - Gravity. The more slope you climb, the greater the effect of gravity and reduction of momentum... It gets quickly to where every pedal stroke is obvious acceleration... Lighter Wheels go up a slope, faster..., even what we call 'false flats'.
Your/My Bontrager Wheels are Very Heavy ! - I just weighed my set of Wheels - with tires and brake rotors, the wheelset weighs 8 lbs !!!! That's 37% of the total weigh of my bike, prolly very close to yours also. That's a lot.
A good wheelset can lower that wheelset total weight by 2 lbs.... a very discernible difference, riding...
Wheels can be pricey.
But good tires & light tubes, also a bit pricey at times, are a good way to start reducing that weight and at the same time get a much better ride quality...
Ride On
Yuri

Sierra_rider

As others have said, just give the tubeless version of Conti GP5k a try. Not only do they roll faster, but going tubeless will be an additional cut to rolling resistance. I ride on some really rough roads and even occasional gravel, yet have had no flats on the GP5000 TRs.

Smaug1

From what cyclezen said, heavier wheels will mostly affect acceleration and overall weight issues, such as climbing. I guess I'm not concerned with either of those, as the engine is 30 lbs. overweight, so 2 lbs. in the wheels is insignificant for me. I'm glad too, as wheels are SO expensive!

Sierra_rider makes a good point. Tires are relatively a lot cheaper and can make a difference even for fatties like me. I'm a bit scared of going tubeless though; seems like a lot of hassle, but it would address the concern of more flats with "supple, high-performance tires." I think I'm going to try your recommendation over time. Figure out what all I need and add to a shopping list at some bike parts site somewhere, and maybe execute over the winter when I won't miss having the bike available.